From tanijantsang@my-deja.com Tue Mar 14 16:05:40 2000 Return-Path: tanijantsang@my-deja.com Received: from mc-qout4.whowhere.com (mc-qout4.whowhere.com [209.185.123.18]) by prop.sonic.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA23077 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:05:40 -0800 X-envelope-info: Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by my-deja.com; Tue Mar 14 16:04:37 2000 To: "CoE SOD" Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:04:37 -0800 From: " " Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: PRE-C.O.S.> DID BELIEVE IN A 'SATAN', X-Sender-Ip: 63.5.83.232 Organization: My Deja Email (http://www.my-deja.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: ROr Are you Dark Magus?? Yeah, and I meant every word of it, too. I thought for sure I'd get flamed - but? Check out the post Imade of Ole's article on MIGHT IS RIGHT??? I'll paste it here. It's one of the best written pieces I've ever seen. Might is Right? Or is it that RIGHT IS RIGHT? By Ole Wolf Many of us in the COS have said before, and repeatedly, that "might is right!" is the war cry of the vanquished, that is, it's the cry of those that fell victims of might. Outrageous as these words may seem at first to those that read _The Satanic Bible_, they are the readers' truth. Although it is long forgotten and suppressed, they have seen first hand since childhood that regardless what seemed right, what became right was determined by might. Throughout childhood and adolescence, they have felt the effects of might on their own minds and bodies. But was it right to break their very instincts and leave them broken? Was it right to leave these people virtually sentually dead compared to a person who is not broken No, it was wrong; it was anti-human in the extreme, and Christianity does this (along with many other religions that do not dominate our culture in the West) from the moment of birth. Ideally, upon recognizing this, they would deliver themselves by their own minds and bodies by recognizing what was done to them and how it was done, and then _themselves_ determine right and wrong. They would possess an inner quiet strength that rendered them too strong for the adversaries that have oppressed them as long as they can remember. And yet, they are not content with having won--or so they believe--the battle for their minds. Although they should have become freed from their original oppressors, years of oppression has become hardwired in their bodies and internalized, and they have become their OWN oppressors. They will fight against oppression until the day they die, never realizing that now the battlefield lies within themselves. As oppression fights oppression within the same person, they are the bullied people become bullies, or stalkees become stalkers. Unlike the person that destroys his oppressors in retribution quickly and then then stops, they want to become oppressors themselves and _continue_ the status quo, under a new name. So you hear them, louder than ever, proclaim that "might is right!," conjure grand theories about mutual preying, and consider themselves wolves among sheep rather than humans among humans. Without considering whether life negating and energy-draining competition for "right by the means of might" is an advantageous form of interaction among human animals, they fall prey to solipsism and believe that their own suppression naturally extends to every human specimen. It is this solipsism that prompts them to repeatedly postulate a philosophy that has long since been recognized as pseudo-science and termed "vulgar-Darwinism:" the notion that the human animal must prey upon its peers in order to survive. These "advocates of undefiled wisdom" are not concerned by contradictory facts of biology, however. Neither are they concerned about facts of history or sociology, which reveal how profoundly Christianity has been secularized into all levels of society by means of sheer might. This should stand as a warning beacon to the Satanists who advocate that might should continue to be right; but instead, they appraise might, never realizing that might was the very technique that was used to oppress them in the first place. Really! As self-proclaimed adversaries of the Christian reign, they should have been _crushed at birth per their own principles_, and only Christian mercy saves them from persecution and destruction because of their newly-gained philosophy. You'll also see that whenever any form of might that they so highly cherish is used against them in the form of draconian measures from influential Christians, their battle cries fade to desolate wailings about unfair treatment. They never ask themselves the question if the sudden "might" that they get upon reading _The Satanic Bible_ or by calling themselves Satanists could be a mere illusion. In fact, it is. "We are the ones who change the world," they say. So? What are they doing as physicists, chemists, or engineers to investigate new, lasting energy sources that do not pollute the Earth? What are they doing as physicians to find more effective ways to avoid or cure diseases? What are they doing as economists to solve the problem of poverty? What are they doing as social workers to ease the lives of the millions for whom society has become too complicated? What are they doing as lawyers to devise laws that appeal to common sense and are manageable by everyone? What are they doing as teachers to help children learn and understand so that they will become able to think and act by themselves? What have they done to please their lovers that she or he may hold on to them for other reasons than the illusions in the lovers' heads? Okay, we know their standard answer: "We do not care about poverty, ignorance, pollution, diseases, or others' lack of pleasures. We only want our own indulgences," they state. Does this mean they're ignorant of the fact that social disasters are the most fertile soil for all types of religious oppression? Does it mean that they are ignorant of the fact that their indulgences are only possible as long as there are people who feel responsible to continuously attempt to fight the inequality and inhumanity of might? Does it mean that they are ignorant of the fact that if might truly became right, they would be completely crushed? These people are those that can identify with Satan because they're TOTALLY WITHIN the Christian mind-set, where Satan represents the LOSER. That's how I and many others view them: people that lost the battle for their minds; ultimate Christians who are still playing the Christian game. With the exception of a few members, most of the members many have encountered are Christian morons who are either renaming Jesus to "intellectualism" or people that think indulgence means porn (which is essentially the same thing as intellectualism). You feel the black flame within you, or you don't feel it. Some don't have it, and they gravitate towards the Church of Satan and other Satanic organizations because it provides an identication with LOST divinity, or so I'd imagine, it provides them with a "group wailing ground" in which to make strong sounds and bolster up each others broken egos. Instead of feeling divinity within them, they act like little Hitlers ("their own gods"), which is completely superficial. That's them: nothing inside. They aren't REAL so they have to be OTHER things (gods). What Christian indoctrination does, even NON-RELIGIOUS Christian CULTURAL indoctrination, is wrong, it is monstrous. We know of NO Satanist in ANY organization, nor in any Wiccan organization that would disagree, especially if they are aware of how much "wrong" was done to them by this entire 2000 year old tradition. Yet the Christians surely had MIGHT. The Christians still have might, but their free-handed use of it has been tempered by those who were TRULY against them: and none of those adversaries who really pushed them back and won gains for the human condition ever thought or said that might was right. They knew better. They had Undefiled Wisdom - FOR REAL. End. -- On Tue, 14 Mar 2000 15:47:10 CoE SOD wrote: >I liked this post very much and appreciate it breadth of vision. thanks. > >boboroshi@satanservice.org (CoE SOD) > >In alt.satanism you write: >>This is the best post you've made thus far! I salute you then. I >>think you got it. And I'm glad you understand what I say and don't >>either pretend you don't and try to fuck with me, or really don't and >>ask me the same questions 100 times and make yourself BORING as some >>others do. This is a GOOD post and what you have said about your own >>beliefs and day to day change is WISE. > >>Doc, on his deathbed, probably never considered "Jesus" but he MAY have >>considered Adonai. That was the deity he may have heard of from >>childhood, very early on, being in the ethnic group he was in. And oh >>yes, that was his ethnic group. His parent's conception of Deity was >>nature. But then, what did THEY believe when they were in metaphorical >>fox holes? Adonai Elohim and etc? Maybe. > >>I don't know what he REALLY thought from day to day or on his >>deathbed. But the point is - I also don't care! I DO NOT rail against >>Satanists who believe in a LITERAL Devil with horns. I don't care what >>anyone believes per se. What are THEY LIKE AS PEOPLE - that is what is >>MORE REAL to me. A fellow Black Magician that comes into my house and >>steals my shit is an ENEMY. But a christian who preaches about Jehova >>and can be TRUSTED alone in my house, is NOT my enemy. It boils down >>to the simplest of things, in REAL life - i.e., what I DO. And what I >>DO is real. I can philosophize on a million different things and >>diatribe polemically talking out of 100 sides of my mouth as I did with >>a Maoist group. What I DO, however, is real. The rest is nothing. > >>I don't view the LaVey family as a dynasty or care about their personal >>doings. I don't give a flying fuck about their family squabbles and I >>think it was stupid to air all of that in front of the damned market >>place. Well, Bob Larson the Christian got richer for all of it. When >>I could easily have done so, ask this, ask that, even over a phone, I >>never bothered to ask: if I had cared, I'd have asked. I DO know that >>words can be misinterpreted - either by accident or DELIBERATELY (like >>Prinn tries pathetically to do, INVITING someone, anyone, to trash him >>all over again. He has a mosquito complex - he tries to BE one and he >>pics and chooses different people to OBSESS over on this ng and BOY, >>does he obsess or what....) I think I spelled it out pretty clearly >>and I tried like hell to be polite about it. > >>Satanism is Satanism and different people have different ways of >>conceptualizing things - and that doesn't normally stay the same unless >>the person is stagnant and barren. What a person DOES is more >>important than what a person "thinks." Lots of people swear they think >>or believe this or that but their actions, their deeds, PROVE they >>don't think or believe any of it. > >>Tani Jantsang > >>In article <2ffb2e28.9d00fda0@usw-ex0103-018.remarq.com>, >> DarkMagus wrote: >>> First off, I think you are a very intelligent being, and I give >>> you the utmost respect. I enjoy your posts and they carry alot >>> of weight in my eyes. I have the greatest respect for Dr. LaVey, >>> do not get me wrong. He was a true master in every sense of the >>> word. However, I feel as I examine the big picture, as an >>> outsider, I feel in the early beginnings, he was influenced by a >>> smaller circle as well as the signs of the times. The 60's were >>> a wild and charismatic time. He stepped up to THE PLATE, BUT >>> DID HE ACTUALLY SIT DOWN AND REALLY PUT TOGETHER WHAT HE >>> BELIEVED IN? I feel he was under alot of pressure & to an >>> atheist he was one and to a satanist he was one, and to a >>> luciferian,...? Today I feel America would lose a war with >>> Russia,..ten years ago I would say different. I am very familiar >>> with what you know, but to be honest, I will share something >>> personal with you, just to show that I honor your integrity. And >>> J.Y. as well, also an intelligent being. I have studied magick >>> for over 30 years, and to this day, I still do not know what the >>> hell I believe in.Everyday I believe and learn more,.. I do not >>> want to be stagnant in a stuck belief system. I can do a ritual >>> & I know " I've done a ritual",..then there are times I think >>> its all horse shit!I think Doc had his doubts as he lay in his >>> death bed, what he would soon encounter. How do you know he did >>> not say a silent prayer to jesus asking him to forgive >>> him?...Well, maybe I took it too far there!BLAHHH! But >>> seriously, how do we know as he lay in that hospital bed, ready >>> and knowing full well he would be dead soon, how do we know the >>> inner most thoughts inside an intelligent being's mind? We >>> don't! I'm sure doc had plenty of thoughts he never shared with >>> any one,..we all do for that matter. And I think because he was >>> intelligent was the reason why he never allowed his ideas to be >>> too bogged down nor stagnant. Stagnation is the ruin of all of >>> man's achievments. This is how I see it, we will never >>> know,.even if he was sitting in on this boaed,..we still would >>> never know,... >>> >>> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion >>Network * >>> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - >>Free! >>> >>> > > >>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ >>Before you buy. > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't.